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But I am having a real hard time accepting this. And we know it. Out of the whole group, 80% of these woman have never experienced orgasm.

Then,…for some reason something way down in there wants to believe,…and wants to see this thing turn. For some it feels like a life commitment, for others it is fraught with danger. We try to make time for this, but sometimes it's weeks between encounters.



In working with couples it is quite evident that men and women each assign different meaning to lovemaking. Sex is the Highest Form of Love For women, having sex does not necessarily equate with feeling love. That seems to be a learned behavior. Not true for a man. For many if not most men sex is the epitome of love. Most wives would be hard pressed to find a better way to express their love to their husbands than by willingly and enthusiastically engaging in sexual intimacy with them. One man explained it this way: My wife has basically given up on having a healthy intimate relationship with me. To fill that void she goes out of her way to perform all of her other wifely duties. She keeps a meticulously clean house, is a fantastic cook, and in every other way is amazing. What frustrates me is that although those things are important I would ten times rather have an affectionate, loving relationship with my wife than any of those other things. My wife says that in order for her to get physically worked up for a satisfying sexual experience, it will take her three or four days of just mentally focusing on it, and that is only if nothing like a cross word or problem with one of the kids occurs. What are the chances? And then to make it even more frustrating, when she does respond you know that it is purely out of duty, and not because she desires it. She says she loves me, which I believe. She has mentally given-up and moved on to other things. They long for that sexual closeness with their wives, but find that their wives do not engage them sexually as they would hope. One man living in a sexual desert in his marriage wrote the following on the meaning of sex: When a man feels the desire for sex there is a sense of anticipation, even anxiety or tension. It is often felt as a tightness in the chest and even some pressure in the head. This is difficult to describe because when I put it in words it sounds unpleasant, but it is not. If it continued indefinitely and without a pleasant climax, I am sure it would lead to a headache and be quite annoying and unpleasant. These physical sensations are accompanied by an emotional headiness. A man feels bound and sealed to a wonderful future and a lack of will to fight it. The outside world begins to fade and have less effect on his senses. All his senses begin to intensify, sharpen and focus on his wife. Each impulse from his senses intensifies the emotional and physical sensations. The smell of her perfume becomes very strong and intoxicating. He is convinced that he could detect it from the other side of the earth even diluted by a thousand winds. His vision feels like it is much more acute. Every feature on his wife contains a thousand beauties to hold his gaze. It feels to him that he cannot physically turn his eyes away. Even if he could what reason would there be? If he catches her eyes and holds them for but a moment, a feeling of weightlessness comes over him, and he feels like he is growing small and moving towards those beautiful pools. Her eyes grow larger and larger in the intensity of his focus until they seem to be the entire world, a world where there is only peace and comfort. Each sense bleeds over into the others. When he looks at her cheeks, he can feel them against his fingers. When he looks at her lips, he can feel them against his. He is convinced that he can feel it, but he discovers that he is wrong, for the powerful sensation of the actual touch is almost enough to overwhelm his faculties. It seems that he is supported only by the excitement and tension that he feels. The excitement continues to grow until he knows that his only desire is to be one with her, to be inside her. The senses continue to sharpen and focus. The emotions continue to build beyond what he thought he could bear. By the time of climax, he is unconscious of an external world, he is only aware of the one person who used to be two. There is much more that I should say here if you are to get a complete picture of what sex means to a man, however I think we can suffice it to say that the feelings and emotions build beyond imagination. And then in a matter of seconds, the feeling changes 180 degrees. What was the most beautiful exhilaration becomes the most consuming peace. The tension melts almost instantaneously. It would be difficult for him to remember any troubles or cares of the world. All is right, all is peace. Every muscle relaxes, and he lies next to the keeper of his heart. She has the power to take him beyond the veil to taste of a heavenly pleasure beyond this world. Peace and calm as deep as any ocean envelop him. Sleep comes easily and is often difficult to hold back. To sleep with her in his arms is the greatest peace attainable on this earth. The effects of this experience last through the night and into the morning, when he wakens to see her lying next to him. He comes to know the impossible: that it was not a dream. Such pleasure, such happiness is possible and she has given it to him. She is now the focus of his existence. He would give his life to keep her from care. His senses are still acute. The morning sun is brighter than he remembered. He cannot recall seeing a sky that blue before. Or, has the rain always smelled so new and fresh? It cannot be, this is a sudden change that has come over the entire world. Each detail is improved and perfected for he is complete and whole. He marvels at the change that has come over him. He feels that his heart is no longer his own but lives within her. He fancies that if he strays too far from her side, its life-supporting power will attenuate, and he will die. Here is beauty beyond imagination. Here is the embodiment of all that is good and wholesome and desirable. Man sees no negative to sex, and numerous positives. Perhaps the most important thing is that most men will never feel closer more intimate to their wives than when they are actually inside of her sharing the most powerful expression of love, passion, openness and oneness available to mortals. What sex means to a woman may be so different that the intimate relationship has little chance of success without open and effective communication on this vital subject. I am convinced that many women do not understand how important sexual love is to their husbands, nor do husbands fully understand how best to love their wives. If husbands out there are unsure of whether their wives understand what sex means to them, maybe they can start with the eloquent portrayal given here and adjust it to fit them, then put it in writing for their wives. That may be a good way to go—on such a topic as this. If you think it would be helpful, and if you can communicate in a way that your wife will be able to truly hear you, then it could be a turning point in your marriage. After seven years of marriage, one woman told her husband that she hated sex. Hearing that blew him away, but it began a conversation that now, many years later, has had a very positive impact on all aspects of their relationship. Sex is a powerful form of love for both men and women. Men, especially, may assign great power to sexual love in their marriages. Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist LMFT and Certified Sex Therapist CST , Laura M. Brotherson is the author of the best-selling book , and her latest book. As a Certified Family Life Educator CFLE , Laura is actively engaged in providing marriage education through , , a , , and presenting at. Laura is passionate about helping couples navigate the intricacies of intimacy to help build stronger marriages and families. She and her husband, Kevin, of 25 years are the founders of. Subscribe to our , , and and join us on , and. Learn more at — your trusted resource for education, products and services to strengthen marriages … intimately! So, the man above describes how everything becomes more intense — the smells stronger, the sky bluer, the love deeper. Well, unfortunately, I think the opposite also occurs — the despair is deeper, the night darker, the pain more intense. I know that when I feel it building in me, and the senses get more intense, that when rejected, I really hurts … perhaps because it is so opposite from what it could be. My wonderful wife I think finally got that in the last year or so. Things are much better now. She at least accepts, if not understands, the power of sex for me. The rejections are fewer and farther between, and much easier to accept. I doubt it means the same to her that it does to me, or that it ever will, BUT, she has come to terms with it and learned to accept it as part of me. I writing one now … Two years ago, we wrote many letters, when things were really bad. A thank you for the fulfilled fantasies and what they mean to me. A thank you that is a deep and positive as the letter two years ago were dark and negative. I echo the comments of Laura, the men she quotes, and Xenon. I never feel more alive in ALL my senses than with true sexual intimacy. Sexual intimacy is probably a little different for everyone, but I suppose a lot of men feel the same as the men mentioned above and to myself. I have tried to communicate to my wife that for me sexual intimacy is tied closely with emotional and spiritual intimacy and when we make love I feel I am giving all that I am and ever want to be for her — I am giving all of ME INTO HER. And, when my wife genuinely wants to make love to me and for me to make love to her I never feel more needed, accepted, appreciated, wanted, alive — I exist for this love; this love is the purpose and meaning of life and all creation. I believe every man and woman desires and needs this love, this total acceptance, this total giving, this total receiving with your spouse. The object of our existence is to become one with our spouse and Diety; there is no greater happiness, joy, and peace. I sincerely hope that all husbands and all wives can better understand and value and appreciate each other in all areas and seek to love more fully. What an amazing description from this man that she quoted in the article. I love my husband. He is my soulmate in every way. WE have a large family and sometimes sex has been drudgery for me and inconvenient at times. That alone, has made such a difference in our marriage. It means alot to him that it is important to me. In that quest came understanding of myself. That woman are very sexual beings as well and we also need it to be whole. I feel I have become so intune to his needs that I literally cannot fall asleep at night if I sense, even slightly, that he needs me. It is a wonderful place to be. We are one truely in everyway. This is how God designed sexual oneness to be. It is heavenly and was meant to be like this. I have noticed that when my dear wife and I have some really close intimacy and I know she felt it also, I am MUCH more likely to take any comments or mild criticism in a positive way. It is like it takes an order of magnitude more effort to try and that such comments in a positive way. I think if we could spend some time in our spouses frame of mind for a few days, we really understand each other better. As much as I would like for her to understand where I am coming from, I want to know and understand what she really feels and thinks — as well as how she views me. All we have are words to try and figure out this stuff and those are shared too infrequently. It is nice to know that I am not alone and that many others feel as I do. It makes me realize I am not so abnormal as my wife would like me to believe. My wife does not get this at all. Whenever I get the nerve to bring it up, it just starts another fight. When I get built up tension or feel turned away is really the only time we fight. She never actually says no, she just starts saying how tired she is or how sick she feels before bed time. That is my signal there will be no intimacy. If I could just learn to be happy with having intimacy only whenever she wanted it, we could be the happy marriage poster couple. My wife is a good woman. She is brilliant, she is a tremendous mother, and with the exception of not being the intimate partner I had hoped I was marrying, she is an amazing woman. I guess she thinks that is enough. I hope this answers your question. Hey Depreciated, in going through some things on the blog I just found your original comment waiting in the moderation queue. For some reason it never came through to me as an email to approve, which is how I usually see the comments. Looks like you should be good to go now though. Perhaps entertaining, perhaps not one they would like, optional, unimportant, easily put off for when you feel like it and have time to kill. For a lot of guys it is like a meal, you need them frequently, they are important, and if you keep missing them there are serious consequences and discomfort. After 24 years of marriage, I can safely say that men want sex because it feels good to them. It is NOT about intimacy. If so, they would never have had sex before marriage, and rape would never, ever happen. Men only want women to enjoy it because it makes them feel like they have done something to be proud of. I absolutely love my DH, but he wants sex daily. Orgasms take a huge amount of effort for such little benefit. I give my husband sex 3-4 times a week, but it is to make him happy. I know he would not give up sex to make me happy. Orgasm is like a roller coaster. Stand in line for 30 minutes, get on the ride, take the coaster to the top, and have 10 seconds of thrill. Might be fun a couple times a year, but not more than that. He does it himself often enough, as it is. If he needs to, he could do it. The difference between him and a roller coaster is, the coaster never asks me to get it aroused if it is not already. I feel intimate with my spouse when we dance, hold hands, share dinner alone, or take walks in the forest. It is a series of muscle contractions, much like child birth. Sometimes, I am too sensitive to stimulation. Other days, I would have to have a lot of effort. He would have it 3 times a day if he could. To those women who are done with the effort of sex, you are not alone. We just have to offer it and make it seem like a good idea. I can only provide and keep my opinion of the process to myself. At 50 years old, I should be able to have a rest sometimes. It is not as fascinating to some women as it is to you. What is in it for us, besides your satisfaction? I love this post. It is honest and forthright. You can feel the way you feel, and that is to be respected completely. I can also understand how your husband might notice I said might feel about this. But, that is OK as well. I really do believe women are entitled to their own feelings and thoughts. I can merge my assests with a sibling, and legally we can bind our livelihoods together without breaking moral law. I can also foster or simply be a parent to a sibling or neighbor child in specific sitautions. Non-sexual intimacy,…like pillow talk. I have a sister who I love, and she has had health problems — bad ones. So, I can even say that pillow talk does not require marriage. The list can go on and on. This same sister,…I have looked her in the eyes and told her how much I love her. The bottom line is sex; only thing that sets marriage apart from any other connection is sexual intimacy. Here is the hard part of this wrinkle I just introduced. I think that some people are just not compatible. Your marriage is in a position where it can be ended. So, you have a hard decision to make; or like me, you will stumble along for years to come, and the pain will just multiply and fester. After spending decades—literally—wrestling with this problem, I am convinced that divorce is the answer to this compatibility issue. They have to literally sacrifice who they are as an individual for the sake of the marriage,…and that in my opinion, is destructive. So, perhaps your marriage is over. If you love your spouse but hate sex, then perhaps you can work something out where you no longer need to be married, and you can just be friends. Whether you believe that is an option or not, there are a lot of people who have done just that, and they have been successful. You get to be friends with your ex—and co parent and so forth—and he is free to pursue a relationship with someone more compatible. It is a scary place to be, but also a liberating one. I for one am a man who has a need for sexual intimacy. I also need to be with someone who is compatible—meaning, they want to be with me in the bedroom. My marriage has subsequently died. I believe we could be good friends—I really do believe this—but not marriage. We are incompatible, and no amount of therapy is going to change how either of us feel. Respect goes both ways. I have chosen the latter, and out of respect for her needs and decisions, I am entitled to her respect for my decisions and needs as well. Mischelle, Your comments just lead me to want to ask more questions. You seem to have a extremely negative view about sex in your marriage. I wonder why that is? Do you not believe that men can not enjoy pleasure and intimacy at the same time? Why does your husband insist on you having an orgasm? If the way you feel changes from day to day, are you able to share what you want? Do you communicate openly about the feelings you have about sex- or do you suppress those feelings and give your husband sex grudgingly? Since you are the low desire partner in your marriage, you get to control of sexual intimacy that takes place. Do you understand this power? Since you absolutely love your husband, do you feel any desire to change? Do you believe that the greatest sex organ is the brain? Eating is work too. It requires buying, planning, preparing and cleaning up. Having the very best sex of our lives! What is in it for us you ask? Deeper love than you have experienced yet, connection like none other, a happy and content heart that radiates to everyone. I believe your attitudes and the way you and your DH have embraced sex in your marriage, has kept you from enjoying the amazing intimacy two people can share. If either of you are not happy with where you are sexually, you can work as a team to resolve some of the deepest issues you both face. I wish you both well. Lovey I can understand your feeling that way , but only because you are missing an important part of the picture. There are those who are still the carnal, selfish natural man and there are those who are reborn of Christ. Sex will be a deeply emotional, even spiritual bonding experience for him. I hated myself for it and I never, EVER pushed her like that ever again. It sounds to me like you give him your body and withhold your heart. Duty sex is emotionally empty, so if your lovemaking is just about the physical side and has nothing emotional to it, you bear at least some, and perhaps most, of the responsibility for it. If you have never given him emotionally fulfilling sex, how is he to know how emotionally fufilling it can be? It should be a joy to your soul to make him feel loved, wanted, accepted, desired. Stop living on dry bread and water. Arogen,…I wish I knew you personally. I am right on the edge. I wish there was a way to plug your heart into my brain and somehow share some of what you have. Hold the line brother. Sometimes the things you share with me are lifelines…and I mean that with all sincerity. There are lots of comments from many marriage counselors saying that they have found that men really want an emotional connection and an essential part of that is sexual intimacy. Just having sex often WILL NOT get them there. Maybe they will tollerate the situation and maybe not even know what they are longing for. I am speculating here, but just reading what you brought up a thought came to mine and I think at a very high level it is the same feeling that some men have when their wife does not allow much sex in the marriage. They get to a point where they are tired of feeling like they are giving so much more than they are receiving. It sounds like you have tried really hard to make yourself available to your husband, but you feel like he just wants more and more. I think that feeling of giving all the time and not receiving can happen the other way. When a man tries really hard for years doing what you mention makes you feel good and gets rejected when wanting sex. I have listened to several podcasts and it sure seems there is a very hard balance for women to acheive. If they give in and offer chore sex often they are left feeling used. The interesting thing that I hear on these podcasts from marriage counselors is there is no one way to fix that. It is a delicate balance. I agree with you, JustGettingBy; balance is the only way to go. But honestly, I have no idea how to strike this balance with my wife. Any more than that feels like a duty to her and if we go through with it I feel worse than if we had just left each other alone. All I can do is love her and hold tight until a good opportunity comes along. It shows that you are a good person in that you are saying that you are just going to try and lover her as much as you can and hope for an improvement. I would pass on two more things along. You may feel love when she gives you gifts, but to her you are just wasting money. I think there are many most marriages that really trying hard to do everything to please and love your wife will bring about changes in her behavior. But there can be situations where she is quite comfortable with the status quo and will never change based on just you being the best husband around. She can feel she is the luckiest wife around, but at the same time feel no need to change. That can be from selfishness or just not understanding your differences. I was consumed with trying to do everything I could to show her love. The last time I went crashing into depression found out that is NOT a nice place to be and almost got fired due to my decreased performance at my job that is very nice and I really enjoy. So my advice is for you to do like I did and really try hard to please her and hope that will change things. But if you get to where you are many years in and nothing has changed, it is time to change your strategy. At some point if your wife wants a sexless marriage and does not want to work on the issue, then SHE has an issue SHE needs to deal with. And I feel she is hurting or at least limiting her own happiness by not addressing it. But I would also suggest that you do in a very loving and unpressured way, continue to let her know that the situation from your point of view is not healthily for your relationship. When you want to look at one such way to change, read the following interesting thread. Best of luck to you! I am praying for you and your wife. I will possibly take a shot at some of these posts you mentioned here. This topic has become interesting to me. This VERY restrictive view of sexual expression, subtly endorsed by the church, has poisoned my perspective on romantic love in marriage, and also poisoned many others. I became aware of a situation where a woman who I know told me about MANY girl-friends she associates with. All are good LDS woman, raised in the church, and most have been married 15+ years. Out of the whole group, 80% of these woman have never experienced orgasm. It is really sad, but I believe the reason the church sais so little is because sex is not considered all that important. If marriage is so important, and sex is the 1 cause of divorce, then why is so little affirming and positive things said about sex in marriage? This is currently the active thread, but I will post elswhere if asked. I might have a way to resolve some of this,…. I for one am a man who has a need for sexual intimacy. I also need to be with someone who is compatible—meaning, they want to be with me in the bedroom. My marriage has subsequently died. I believe we could be good friends—I really do believe this—but not marriage. We are incompatible, and no amount of therapy is going to change how either of us feel. Respect goes both ways. I have chosen the latter, and out of respect for her needs and decisions, I am entitled to her respect for my decisions and needs as well. There comes a time that you must stand up for what you need and it sounds like that time has come for you Rob. You have every right to have this without force in your marriage. I like the confidence your post suggests. I have to agree with you. Why has the church not said more about positive sexuality? I agree that it would be a good idea. Many things in life are left to our best judgement and agency. Take care, Lovey lovey I for one am a man who has a need for sexual intimacy. I also need to be with someone who is compatible—meaning, they want to be with me in the bedroom. My marriage has subsequently died. I believe we could be good friends—I really do believe this—but not marriage. We are incompatible, and no amount of therapy is going to change how either of us feel. Respect goes both ways. I have chosen the latter, and out of respect for her needs and decisions, I am entitled to her respect for my decisions and needs as well. Two comments lovey, and they are both positive—so no worries. But, there are more than just one of you that has said that,…and it, in a way never before in my life, actually started to open my eyes. I started to look inside of myself and wonder,…hey! So,…I started to wonder what I wanted in marriage. About this time, I looked back in my life—like 23 years at the time—and asked myself the question: what type and amount of sex would I like to be happy and feel complete satisfaction with my wife? That is what I wanted. When I asked my wife about that, she looked at me like I had lost my mind. That was 3 years ago. Progress since that time—nada. Now, about a year ago, a very close friend of mine finished working through a very difficult divorce—and yes, sex was a big part of that mess. But an old flame looked him up out of sympathy when she heard about the mess. One thing led to another, and they ended up dating. When the idea of marriage came up, her face lit up like a Christmas tree, and was met with warm and sincere desire. Not wanting to make any of the same mistakes, they talked VERY openly about everything. IN fact, she asked him how much sex he felt would be appropriate for them if they got married. I am thinking that after things settle down, maybe 4-5 times a week! But until things settle down, I am hoping we can have sex every day, maybe even more! They are married now. You know how happy it makes me feel when my friend shows up for our lunch breaks with a big stupid grin on his face!? I am good friends with this woman—his wife now, and they have something that many couples wish they could have. They are compatible, COMPATIBLE, and sex is something between them that is beautiful, wonderful, sensual and erotic as they are both looking to enjoy the experience, and it pulls them together like super magnets. He looks for every way possible to make her happy, take care of her needs, and treats her like an absolute queen, and she just kicks her feet up and lets that man pamper her, and if she wanted, he would do anything for her. You know,…I think she has him totally whooped. Totally,…and he knows it. Now I know more than one,…one is one of my sisters of all people! She believes that sex is personal and special between her and her husband, but she is not embarassed about how much she loves him, and how she shows it at all. She is such a good friend and example. Some of us men want THIS! We want to be wanted,…and we want to be persued and made to feel like we are hot! Any women out there want to have the world conquered and laid at their feet? If you just knew how to channel that power, that male aggression, that ambition! Rob, Your dream is our reality. Wish more women could experience such fulfillment as I know is possible. Might be a small fraction of the problem. There are many complex reasons people behave as they do. One question: Why do you think your wife has shown such contempt for you by her refusal of having sex with you on a regular basis? I have been studying sexuality for the last couple of years on my own- would love to become a sexuality educator or social scientist- looking for master degree options right now. Interestingly, my hon has been called into a position to serve young adults in the church and my interest in sexuality has been of great help to him. I feel that Heavenly Father has directed my interest in this so my hon and I can be of service to some of His children. Can I suggest a book for you to read? Check out their rich forum too Lovey Let me try to repost. I have broken covenants—yep, I confess I did that. I honestly believe at this point that the shame I have found has been created BY the church,…not outside it. This has not helped me. I had hoped—REALLY HOPED—that the crap I grew up believing was false, had no basis in truth, and was just plain in error. I can summarize in a conversation I had with my almost 90 year old father. So, that was what I was raised in. This was the general tone and message the church portrayed when I was growing up. When I did some checking, I found some very VERY confusing statements by J. Reuben Clark, Spencer Kinball, Bruce McKonkie, and others. So, the message is totally confused and messy. I had never contemplated that I should fast and pray for months to achieve absolute purity and complete selflessness so that I could bring piety and spiritual reverence to the marriage bed. The temple is the most sacred place on the earth, and the marriage is the most sacred ordinance of the temple. It appears that sex is the pinacle of absolute religious observance—or at least that is one message that has been communicated. I confess I am a carnal man. Sometimes I just want to make out and mess around with my wife. It trivializes something so sacred. Is it wrong to just want to have sex with my WIFE and enjoy a hot and heavy evening together of mutual fun and passion? It appears it is. Spencer Kimball —in Faith Proceeds the Miracle—sais that sex for pleasure is wrong. If I am going to stay married at all,…looks like celebacy is the answer. I have the documentatino to prove it! I am sooooo tired. I am just sooooo tired and discouraged. Can you feel my utter frustration and turmoil in this post? Mark this one as a serious RANT! I wonder if this one will be blocked as well? Hey Rob4Hope, Please believe that God absolutely designed sexual relations in marriage to be full of fun and passion. There is no sin in that! I wonder though if it might help for you to pay more attention to what God has to tell you directly about sex than the confusion you are feeling from the few documented comments you can find from church leaders although Chapter 2 of my book And They Were Not Ashamed is full of them. Remember too that we are all carnal to some degree here on earth. We all have a mortal overlay partially covering our true divine self, so part of our job here on earth is to overcome the natural man and work to remove that mortal overlay raincoat. Long time no hear, but thanks for the posts. That really goes counter to some of the things I was taught my whole life. So, the refrences are old and I say this respectfully —out of date. But, that is OK. It does set a precedence of sorts, and I am making progress. It makes me angry. But it is the way it is. And the hardest one……… 7 My anger and frustration are preventing any changes at all. Because of how I feel, I spend most of my time wishing I could end my marriage. Right now, I am significantly happier when I am not home and around her. I think she likes it better that way as well. This is all very negative stuff. I have nothing constructive to say here. Any spouses out there reading this? There is a reason satan promotes porn like he does, and how wide-scale it is. It is that simple. The role of the church is to get you to have faith in Christ, repent of your sins, get baptized, get the Gift of the Holy Ghost and endure to the end in righteousness. You have the Gift of the Holy Ghost and you can go to God yourself in prayer to seek His help with other issues. Please hang in there. The quotes are teaching truths or not teaching truths. As you said, they at least set a precedent that you can believe those things and still be a good faithful Mormon. I know what it is like to feel unwanted by your spouse. Diving into sinful activities will lead to you not liking yourself either. Heaven is not like this. A celstial couple are both Christlike. Do you really think how your wife is acting counts as being Chirstlike? If the circumstances you feel make divorce a legitimate option then you have to decide if it is the best path forward or not. God put the desire for that kind of relationship in men and he put desires in women to have that kind of marriage too, but society, dysfunctional families etc mess with what God created pushing people to be promiscuous or frigid. I think you need to take action to fix the situation, but you need to decide what kind of action that is, pushing once more to fix the relationship or getting out of it. Just sitting there suffering is unwise and you only delay the choice needlessly. Arogen, I know people on both sides of this spectrum,…. And there are others on the other side. I am NOT making light of your statement as I respect you Arogen. But, honestly, there are people who do believe that good sex is bad. Hi Rob, Go ahead and rant if you wish. Of course it is not wrong to want to have SEX with your WIFE and totally enjoy it! In that book she makes the point that your marriage will be about as good as your Integrity. I suspect that was a helpful tool for some people. Integrity breed respect and is highly desirable in a marriage. Perhaps not someone in a sexual desert situation like your own. My parents did a little better than that but it was not discussed very much. When I was a child of 7 or 8, a much older cousin who lived with us was curious about sex and experimented on me. It was scary- and I was sure I had sinned — Years later I told my Dad about it when I was 12. Little else was shared even before I was married. Lucky for me, I married a kind man who helped me heal from that experience. His parents never shared any information about sex before we married We have grown together. I am thankful to be sexually whole. Here is something you should know that comes from our current church leaders in Handbook 2 which any member can find at LDS. And your leaders You still did not answer my question. When you map your wife, why does she refuse to have sexual relations with you? Do you think it is purely biological? Does she place your children before your needs? Is it as a way to punish you? Gain power over you? WHY does your wife not DESIRE YOU? Kindly, Lovey Have you picked up a book by David Schnarch yet? He also wrote Passionate Marriage. Two problems going on: 1. No acting out, get fixed up with the church, repair relationship with God, etc. You see, when I ask my wife for sex and she rejects me, I feel hurt and angry about it. It is the MOST common thing in this part of our marriage. My wife wants to be able to tell me no at any time, for any reason, for any length of time, and she wants me to be OK about it……. Then, after we do that for a while,…and ONLY after we do that for a while like for at least several months if not into years , will she consider changing things. She tries really hard to stay close to God, to hold her ground, and to keep her boundaries. The way I interact with her is considered abusvie to her. So, I guess I am abusive. I am a SOB. At this point, I agree with her. I am pissed right off! I feel serious resentment toward her. I have found I feel better when I am not around her. There is a compatibility issue here. This is one of my gripes toward the church that downplays this,…but for some reason chooses to ignore the massive role sex plays in divorce. It baffles me totally,…but that is off topic. There have been times in our marriage that have been going well. During those times, I have asked my wife for sex, and she turns me down. But, the end result is the same,.. She is like a camel and I mean that respectfully. The better the sex, the less frequent she needs or wants it. When we are getting along really well and things are wonderful,…the sex slows down. She needs to let it settle for a long time before she could even consider partaking again. How crazy is that!??? The better our relationship, the better our sex. The better our sex,…. If I can learn how to be a REALLY great lover,…. I could work myself right out of the bedroom! I could find myself judging how wonderful my sex life is by how little we have. LOL Oh wait,…I am already out of the bedroom,…going on 1. Bigger LOL 2 has fed 1 for years. I have done this in an attempt to feel safe and move away from 1. I can do so much better at contributing to the healing of my marriage. She will not commit. She is afraid I will hold her accountable, and she will be trapped. Sex is important to me. How can I give it up for the sake of the marriage,…. That is how I feel. I am stil married because of my children. I have one married off, one on a mission, and one at home. I have met with lots of 12 step groups not LDS that talk about addiction, relationships, and everything else. Two specific people have helped because both are in marriages that are sexually starved. I asked them both what they do when they ask for sex and their wife rejects them. But I am having a real hard time accepting this. In my mind, if I kill the expectation of ever having sex, it will allow me to stay married,…. I bet there are actual women who are reading this who wish that is exactly what they had—no sex—FINALLY,…no sex and just hugs. I feel resentment and anger. The wounds I feel, the resetnment and anger go deap. My time is limited at best. I just read this. Chalk this up as another RANT! Too bad there is no research about this…. Rob, I have a book suggestion for you to maybe check out. I wonder if you might find it to be helpful. Hang in there Rob4Hope! I will stop posting soooooo much. Others are often helped by posting and not with my rants. This is the last RANT for a while…. I think Laura said something like 60% of women do it out of duty. Reverant, subdued, calm and refrained….. Two pieced of information came together to me: 1 the story from my friend about the 80% of her friends who are non-orgasmic, and how religion is a VERY complicit contributor of that problem; 2 the statistic that 60% of women do it out of duty. It has been killed,…or at least seriously stifled. I think BOTH are YES!!! I too agree with Arogen that the Church likely has very good reasons for not getting into the subject, though I do remember how thrilled I was when someone in a General Conference talk not long ago briefly mentioned the importance of sexual intimacy in marriage. Sex is a team sport. Really the best place by far for sexual issues to be resolved is within the crucible of marriage itself. Rob, Like a camel? Your wife lacks desire and a desire to change when it is important to you. What is her personality like? Would she rather be right than married? For me, I made a conscience choice to embrace my sexuality because it is important to my hon. My desire for intimacy has grown even brighter over the years. The benefits go way beyond the bedroom. We work as a better team, accomplish more and are happier doing it. We work hard and play even harder; Do you think her mind is made up? That she will not change? Does she take any responsibility for the state of your marriage? So much of sexuality is a matter of choice. Wish I could spend some time with your wife and share with her the deep happiness that could be hers. And I am not meaning duty sex. Eros is not dead- it is more alive than ever! Agape has its place but Amore trumps in our home. Blaming the church still feels misplaced. I suspect that couples who marry whether they are lds, or not still face trials and challenges when they marry. Marriage is a growing machine. If after these many years, your wife has little desire to meet your needs, you will certainly have some tough choices to make. Are you able to talk as openly with her as you do here? Does she realize that she will be losing you? It is helpful for me to ponder on the whys of the gospel. Helps me live them more fully when I do. The law of chastity is one to understand. I truly believe our society- meaning the best place for children to grow up- is best served when two parents, a woman and a man have their children in the committed bonds of marriage. It is certainly not a perfect system as you are clearly pointing out. What do you wish the church would say to your wife and others like her? What advise would you give the the younger generation who are thinking about marriage? Take care, Lovey Go ahead and rant if it helps. At this point, I think their position is carefully crafted, and very skillfully silent on issues that they handle by simply ignoring them. This is not the only issue. I am not sure if this is true as it would imply academic censuring which I have a problem with,…but with regards to Blacks and PH,…there is a lot of dirt out there. This is VERY inflamatory stuff…. I grew up in a school that was 50%+ non-caucasian, and some of my best friends were black, latino, and asian. In fact, I found myself greatful—VERY greatful—for one black friend who defended me in a very frightening situation. He was a real friend,.. For some reason, they would never NEVER!!! Also,… and I want to be VERY careful here …. Well, is it part of that promise that actually does give institutional precedence to not going back and making corrections? I am NOT supid. I understand where I am at,…and I am not happy about it. These issues above have been the biggest challenge I have encountered regarding faith issues. In fact, they are with out a doubt the biggest challenges I have encounterd in my life. For some reason, I am an individual who has to know the boundaries. The rules matter to me. But, when I have reached to know the rules in this sexual area,…all of this crap just blew in my face. Thank you for that. I will look it up. I need to see that with my own two eyeballs. Part of what I struggle with is the shifting lack of coherance with regards to some of these issues. Sex seems to be something the LDS church has wrestled with. They seem to have waffled historically with if it is for having children ONLY and there are LOTS of people out there who believe that—and I was raised to believe that somehow ,.. This post only answers one of your questions. Others who have read my MASSIVE posting know I have problems with this. BTW, I will have some more information on this particular topic soon. I am really looking forward to finding out how crazy I really am! I think I already know that! Rob, good to see you are still around. I understand your frustration with the church not being forthright on teaching about sex within marriage. I think it is deliberate, and for a reason. Each one of us has the right to personal revelation, and we are NOT supposed to be a bunch of sheep or robots waiting around to be told how we should think and act etc. It is the job of the church to teach us and provide for us what we need to return to the Celestial Kingdom, so we are warned against sin and the ordinances are made available to us. It is OUR job to use personal revelation in managing our personal affairs, including our sexual relationship with our wife. Also, if the church did come out with something specific, it would become a stumbling block for some people. But that was their own view, and those views were not uncommon in their day. In the absence of revelation, the view of any GA will be influenced greatly by the culture they grew up in and they are as prone to error as any other human. None of those racist views were church doctrine. Brigham Young is often held up as an example of somebody who was very racist, however by the standards of his day he was very liberal. He called Elijah Able, a black man who God allowed to hold the priesthood, to be a 70. He declared that the day would come when all worthy blacks would hold the priesthood, and he attributed the lowly station of blacks in society to their being denied education and economic opportunity. Some of the quotes used to brand him are in fact taken out of context too. What was going on in other churches in that day was supporting slavery from the Bible, debating if blacks even had a soul, the use of female black slaves as sex toys with no punishment from the church, and the segregation of black Christians into black churches that exist to this day. Every now and then you would get some guys in white sheets with a burning cross out lynching blacks too. As for polygamy, again there is deliberate silence and I think for good reason. The fact that we have no sanction from God to practice it makes it irrelevant in most ways, and dwelling on it would only make it harder for people to accept the gospel. And that really is what the church is doing, picking what fights it will take on. The most important fight is the one to convert people to the restored gospel and get them to the temple, the rest is optional. Arogen, I have so much emotional flying around inside of me, it is difficult to think and even reason. I understand your comments. But I have read some things from Brigham Young on that topic that are anything but tolerant,…they are as racist as ever. And,…he admitted that he did as well. That is in the public record, so that makes me feel better. I am in the mists of darkness about all of this. My marriage is in shambles. If there are spouses out there reading this,…. LOVE YOUR SPOUSE,…and that includes GOOD SEX…. My 25th marriage anniversary is next month. The last two were spend in separate rooms, and now for 1. The idea of moving back into the same room as my wife makes my skin crawl. It does for her as well. When a wife or husband starts the rejection cycle, the temptations begin to fly and accelerate as the distance increases. Try not to let the mess in that area of your life spill over into other areas as best you can. I used to invite DW up to the bedroom by asking if she wanted to go live the law of chastity. Comment about the GA opinion being more authoritative,…. It kindof rattled me. Perhaps that is a seed of some of my struggle. I trust this EQ guy,…he was not lieing to me,…and he was not embellishing. This is a true story. So, Arogen, it appears that there really is a general concensus that if a GA says something,…. The problem is,…that is what is taught culturally. Mackleprang points out that the implication is that all sexual thoughts are immoral. It is subtle stuff like this and this one is subtle in my opinion that give such a messed up view. Hey, one other interesting thing. They are discusting, sinful, and completely wrong. You should save them for someone you love. He said, and he was teaching that we have a problem, that this is what our culture teaches. It seems like amore is killed in favor of agape, and then even enjoying sex is wrong. The rules apply to them as well. This applies to local leaders as well. When it comes to actual doctrine of the church, the GAs are the only channel for it, and when they, the Bishop etc. The onus is on us at all times to seek confirmation from the spirit before accepting something as a truth, and too many take the easy path of relying on others to tell them what to think rather than find out for themselves, or pridefully relying only on their own intellect. Sometimes we read into things they say something they did not intend and get bent out of shape for no reason. The section in there on sexual immorality starts off with talking about how sexuality within marriage is fine before it goes on to outline what is immoral outside of marriage. Sometimes people express themselves poorly, or in an effort to combat one extreme say things that seem to go to far in the other direction without meaning it that way. We must have charity for human weakness like that. The right path is the one laid on in scripture, prove all things, hold fast to that which is good. It is needful for you to grapple with your testimony and understanding of the church- with great pondering comes a greater understanding and a stronger testimony of what is absolute truth and what is mere culture. Not long ago I was hit with an intellectual man who questioned my beliefs about Joseph Smith. I do so because I honestly believe that our church does contain the knowledge of saving ordinances for our salvation and is the best vehicle to draw myself and my family closer to Christ and his atonement. Rather than focus on I know the church is true, I find it is better for me to testify on doctrines that I have lived so well I know are truths for me. I know the law of tithing is true- my experiences of living that law have opened the windows of heaven. I know Heavenly Father answers my prayers because He responds to my desires so often and leads me down paths I would not go with His help. This man has a unique way of looking at the psychology of intimacy- The low desire partner gets to control the situation- sometimes there are very good reasons why they do. As the high desire partner, you can control what you do about their low desire and act from the best in you- including finding someone who has more desire for you. Using the four points of balance, you can work through the difficult conversations that need to take place to work through your marriage crucible. It may allow you to move into a more satisfying place in your marriage or it may lead you to end it. I think it would be interesting to take a poll of everyone in the church in a leadership position to rate their marriage and their sexuality. A few years ago, I knew I would be asked to speak in stake conference before I was even asked and was told directly what I should share. The message I felt inspired to share was not to the children in the stake but rather to their parents. I know Heavenly Father desires your happiness now. I hope that you will find ways to connect with your wife in a way she will understand you and the importance of a deep emotional connection that will bless your entire family. That is making it harder than it otherwise would be. I enjoy writing more than I enjoy coding,…so posting on sites like this and others, even though I am struggling to be positive, is a wonderful outlet for me. Something about the tactile experience of having the words come to my mind, and laying them on the page just feels good to me. It is one thing in my life that always feels good. I have NO desire for going any further in my education. Anyway, this is a little off topic. Thanks for having kindness toward me. The damage between my wife and I is massive. I fear I could be a casualty—another statistic in a world where long term marriages are ending more and more in divorce. The trends are there, unmistakable, and I am in real fear I will end up that way. Part of me WANTS OUT! Then,…for some reason something way down in there wants to believe,…and wants to see this thing turn. Maybe it is those prayers in teh temple. Arogen, Lovey and Luara and Mark in another post ,…thanks for your responses. Amazing and sureal, and very powerful. I also read a book that was recommendd by someone in another forum…. I hate it…HATE IT!!!! I am in the middle of relationship ambivolence. I have a bunch of books to get through, as well as a thesis to finish…. You all are helping. I actually think I need to figure out who God is. It does feel a little better though to finally feel some peace toward the church. That has been a horrible weight. Arogen, I know people on both sides of this spectrum,…. And there are others on the other side. I am NOT making light of your statement as I respect you Arogen. But, honestly, there are people who do believe that good sex is bad. So what, I know a guy who is sure we never went to the moon and the whole thing was faked. People who think like that about sex are wrong, plain and simple. Those are ideas that creep in because they are or were doctrine in other churches. Yes they promote having children, but they also teach that intimacy is for bonding the couple together emotionally and spiritually as well. She told me a couple of things that were VERY interesting… 1. One of the reasons the GAs avoid the topic of sexuality in marriage is because they recognize there is a vast group of people who have been victimized through sex. Also, this topic is one that is absolutely emotionally charged, and if they even approach it, it can potentially re-victimize those who have been hurt, as well as blow like a bomb with the turmoil and emotional eruptions that will ensue. So, they stear clear of it. It is too emotionally charged. Spencer Kimball was a good friend of Homer Elsworth, and President Kimball asked Homer to take some of these topics and address them. Apparently Homer said to Spencer that he would write the talk, but not give it until Spencer read it over and approved. So, his talk that he apparanetly gave at BYU in the 80s? I would very much like to get that talk. Sexual fire and enjoyment is something that was intended to be in marriage, and God expects his children to come to him, get healed if necessary, even with professional help if required, and buld Celestial marriages. She said that Carlfred was one of the most respected scholars in family type studies down there in Utah County as he had incredible credentials and expereince. I think Laura quotes maybe from him? But, the therapist did say that couples have a joint responsibility to Figure it out! This lady is aware of cultural trends in our LDS communites. It was during that period of time that things got murky and muddled. Now, I confess I am not aware of much being said during the early 1900s about sexuality in marriage, but I can say that the things that have bothered me came from 1960 through about 2000. And now, there is more silence than anything. So, this all jives pretty close to waht I have studied. This lady hopes that I can work it out. She did say that she is aware, however, of SEVERAL bishops across Utah and Salt Lake County who believe that refusing sexuality in marriage is a grounds for divorce. The tolerance for one either man or woman refusing the other partner over and over has apparently grown more thin over the years. Along those lines, I have a very close friend who is messianic jew. The marriage cerimony for those Jewis folks involves 3 covenants—and the third is conjugal rights. That involves a few things,.. This person explained to me that if you want to get married, you have got to understand that this is part of it. I appreciate this friend and their focus. It seems to me that LDS marriages might do better if those who got married understood that not only is sex part of marrige, it is a BIG part and is very important. Anyway, I would be interested in any thoughts from these comments, and also if anyone has this Homer Elsworth talk. Not just those who were abused, but those who have picked up very wrong ideas of human sexuality and marriage would find it very hard to embrace the gospel it the church was activly promoting a sexual mindset they were not ready to accept. My wife told me not too long ago that if a particular sex act was something a married woman had to do, she would have stayed single all her life to avoid it. That was a pretty shocking statement from a woman who wanted to be a mother as much as she did. I would love to see that talk too. It is easy to find via google. When we were newly wed, we were in a ward with a LOT of newlywed couples and the Bishop had a fireside just for us. Some of it was about the sexual relationship, and it was very much pro-sex. My experience has been that members who have hang ups about sex tend to be converts who grew up in sexually respressive churches. The emotional abuse of refusal likewise is something that has come to be better understood in recent years. I hope for the best for you two as well, but in your situation, if you feel you have made every possible effort to salvage the relationship, and you have no realistic hope of it changing, then divorce is an option. Yes, sex is a big part of marriage, but it is something the couple should work out during the engagement period. Each of them have their own issues and expectations and there is no one size fits all answer. My DW and I had no clue what to discuss about sex, how to discuss it, or anything like that. I suggested that Laura write a book specificly for engaged couples partly because of this. Hi Rob, I agree this forum needs an edit feature. Sounds like you are working hard on your thesis then. I am a good reader and I like thinking about this stuff but taking time to post is trickier for me. I just ordered a Carlfred Homer book~my parents married on a dare- sounds entertaining. If for certain personal reasons a couple prayerfully decides that having another child immediately is unwise, the method of spacing children—discounting possible medical or physical effects—makes little difference. Abstinence, of course, is also a form of contraception, and like any other method it has side effects, some of which are harmful to the marriage relationship. As a physician I am often required to treat social-emotional symptoms related to various aspects of living. In doing so I have always been impressed that our prophets past and present have never stipulated that bearing children was the sole function of the marriage relationship. Prophets have taught that physical intimacy is a strong force in strengthening the love bond in marriage, enhancing and reinforcing marital unity. Indeed, it is the rightful gift of God to the married. You can Google it if you want his whole comment. There is not even a small doubt in my mind that sex serves to bind and enhance good marriages. How do you plan to pitch that idea to your wife? Lovey Hello everyone, and you to Kiss girl. Good to see you back. Arogen, I am way ahead of you with the talk from Holland. Part of my struggle came with the idea of Agape vs. She said,…yep, I had a point and it makes sense. When I was raised, for example, I was told explicitely that Amore is inferior. It follows a woman through her life in early church history. Though fictionalized, it does capture something interesting. The woman marries a man named David Walker who was a stone cutter from England. Prior to that marriage, the woman was previouly betrothed to a guy I think was named Jacob. But, my point here is when this lady was betrothed to Jacob, her attitude was to sacrifice Amore for Agape. They actually captured a part of that in this VERY film! It is clearly captured. When shadows of it are captured, even in LDS productions, it makes a lot of sense. I believe my observations are exactly accurate on this point. But, I think it is wrong. I want Amore in my life. I feel so sad that it has been missing for so long. What a horrible loss. The woman felt rather obligated to marry Jacob for all he had done for her. And he is the one that gets her, not Jacob. The message of the movie in that area is that a good marriage has BOTH Agape and Amore. Her Agape only engagment was a bad decision on her part and breaking it off to be with David was the right thing to do. The natural man will take Amore and use it to sleep around, seducing women and using them selfishly for his own pleasure. She is the object of his sexual desires and there is no sin in it. Becuase he bridles his passions in this way he can share a deeper and far more meaningful love and joy than any pick up artist out bed hopping every night. No resentment, no resistance. And once they get started the desire will show up far more often than not. I see nothing wrong with that, I think the ideal would be that anytime one spouse wants it, and it is possible for the other spouse to engage in it, they should both happily go for it. Right and wrong are not determined by a vote, and a couple with all kinds of issues living the gospel can still get things right in the bedroom, and a couple who has everything together at church can be way off base when it comes to sex. You study it out and decide what you think is right, then take it to God for confirmation. IMHO, a marriage should have passion, joy and mutual sexual satisfaction in it, that is what God intended and you describe wanting is right and good. If it helps any, we are another temple recomend holding couple with a lot of Amore going on. You are our little work in progress!! When you say card carrying,, what does that mean? Aragen, always good with the wisdom, lovey, good luck with your studies, you will do well. More people need to tell the youth and the YSA that sex rocks. ESP married gourmet sex, like Laura mentions in her book. You want toe curling sex, now and again, to make the mundane married sex worth hanging in there for!! But to not be sexually ignorant on their wedding night, to know that it is a gift from god to married couples. It is soooo an American thing. Why mess with nature. You need to sort that mental blockage out. You have been molested, and that is sooo not right. How ridiculous , I hope no engaged woman reading this, feels the need to be fingered by a doctor. Let us know what you both are. I hear you re compatible and people should be to make a relationship work, , but I think if both of you are physical touch…that makes your marriage a whole lot easier. Than if one is and one is gifts etc. We are both physical tough.. We can be fighting and screaming and hating each other for 2 weeks, but still have great sex!! I know, now that is crazy!! And yes we are card carriers…. If I have image , right. Anyway, let me know. Hey, where is everyone? I know Laura is up there in Idaho. I wonder where others are. Not many people post save us few these days. I would be interested in just knowing where the posters are generally. I am also VERY much interested in preserving anonymity. Only a few know who I am. Being anonymous allows me to post more of what I really feel. Kiss, I read that Love Language book a long time ago. I am touch,…95% touch, and then maybe 5% service type stuff. My wife wants emotional connection that comes from service and talk. She enjoys touch, but absolutely non-sexual in nature. Part of me is shifting to finding enjoyment in talk, especially written. In my mind, I see my wife having perfect sex as infrequent and containing abrupt transitions. That is perfect for her. In my case, sex is slow, frequent, and luciously yummy. We are in a very weird and difficult place. It will not be heaven for me. It is that thought — and that is a serious thought for me, not some trivial respite—that makes me wonder if the LDS faith is for me. When all is said and done,…I really am wounded deeply inside. Most days now I just feel numb—like I am walking around in a dream. Maybe I will be resurrected with a body that just never feels any libido desire, and I wont miss it at all. But I struggle with wanting to even consider going to heaven. It sounds like a lonely place to feel unwanted forever. The more we perfect our character, the more we perfect our desires as well. How about you sort your life out now and get that numbness to go away by taking some action and either deciding to stay in your marriage and your church and making the very best of it, or getting out of your marriage but staying in your church, or getting out of both. Time to make some decisions. It has been years in the making.. You and the wife are on 2 different roads. Do you merge, so you can both be happy, or do you turn right and go find something else for the rest of your days on earth.? I know we are the same age and honestly…if you are going to make any decisions now is the time, not when you are 58 or when the last son has left home…etc You are all miserable, why delay the inevitable? You are in separate bedrooms now, can you just be done with it, move out, rent a room in a shared house with 20 yr old girls and have a life mate. No women for a bit. Just so you can sort you out. No thoughts of heaven, no thoughts of the wife next door in the next room, finding you repulsive. If you need to lose weight, get a good hair cut, sort your wardrobe out and throw out the 1984 track suit DO IT Just start making a life for yourself. If you hate where you are at…. You made those choices to be where you are. Stop blaming the church, the wife, your job, your last kid. Take responsibly and change it. If you are not happy, only you can make yourself happy. If you are miserable with the wife and she is with you, then get some space between you and see if time apart with the odd date will work. Maybe there is something still there. Make some decisions by Wednesday. The comment about the 1984 track suit got me laughing. Somewhere along the line I really did get a witness of BofM. But, do I want to go to heaven? I am going to fake it, but that is all I got. I am going to physically do things that will help her and be kind. Things like dishes, talks, avoiding sexual contact, praying for her that is a hard one …etc. My wife has asked for more emotional connection, and she wants to work on her sexuality with me. I will try to post and ask for support. You all want to see a work-in-progess last ditch effort? Hold on……………it is coming. I am glad she is on board too…brilliant. Also pray for a sense of humour so you can make her laugh. At least once…more if poss. That is my challenge to you. Laugh, touch, talk, just be friends again. Start fresh from today. All the hurts in the past, are that…in the past. Start fresh from tonight your time…Wednesday our time When you fight, fight clean, no bringing up past hurts, that were apologised for and accepted back then.. Etc Tell her as well.. Start fresh and new. The sex will come. Maybe she hates her body, maybe She thinks she is no good at it.

What do you feel like. North for me, I married a kind man who helped me heal from that experience. I just really want to know from another opinion or idea of what love is because right nowI feel in my gut that my husband don't love me anymore or He changed a lot for me in a way but it's not enough,right now he doesn't say he jesus me has much and feel like he don't have time for me anymore, I work like 10 hrs in a day but when I do get a day off he doesn't have plans for us or I just don't feel much attentionI don't feel any love or being file: I know he not cheating because he stays home all the time with our kids but he did cheat on me multiple times: but deep down I feel like he don't love me because when I confront him about if he stil love mehe give me social time knowing. Respect goes both ways. Bravo team ANUK and keep up the good work. She has mentally given-up and moved on to other things.